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Here's TD's oft quoted 25 points post that points out mistakes he sees guys repeatedly making in field
Tyler says: This is some of the main shit I focus on fixing when I'm in the field. Almost EVERYONE I met so far screws up this shit, and it totally fucks up their sarges.
Source: fastseduction.com post by Tyler
Taught a few hundred guys by now just from meeting guys through PAIR and in workshops recently, and this is the shit that ups their game instantly with no tactics or anything. I see this shit ALL THE TIME. It's the BIGGEST and most COMMON problem I see after everyone I've met. This is some of the main shit I focus on fixing when I'm in the field.
Almost EVERYONE I met so far screws up this shit, and it totally fucks up their sarges.
If you do this, don't feel bad. 99% of guys I meet do it to various extents (myself included).
This is the extension of the "10 alpha qualities" post, which was when I was first figuring out what this shit meant. Back then, I was just posting observations. This post contains conclusions, having now thought about it.
ERADICATE this shit, and your game will go up B-I-G-T-I-M-E, more than ANY tactics will help you. This is part of what's called being a "natural". Even with nothing else, if you know this stuff you'll do well socially, and probably get laid. This stuff is the KEY.
This stuff is only for people who play the REAL game, not the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME. So guys who don't actually PLAY can skip this, because there's not much theory in it - its directly applicable.
1) FIDGETY MOVEMENTS AND TIGHT SHOULDERS AND TAKING YOURSELF TOO SERIOUSLY OR BEING TOO BUSINESSLIKE OR "SOPHISTICATED" (not laughing or being relaxed) = very visible subconsious (or conscious) self-doubt, overcompensating through non-relaxed state, where you're prepared to deal with anything that could happen. Ever met someone who doesn't blink when you talk to them?
2) TALKING TOO FAST = worried that people will stop listening to you unless you get out something that will interest them before they leave
3) LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN JOKES = covering up that you aren't affected that others didn't laugh, and social nervousness
4) SAYING "RIGHT" OR "YOU KNOW" AFTER STATEMENTS = seeking validation that what you said was true, or saying it because others aren't
5) STANDING WITH LEGS NOT HALF A METER APART AT LEAST = worried that you'll infringe on other people's personal space
6) TALKING TOO SOFTLY OR LOUD = fear that you'll impose yourself on people and their personal space(ie: beta).. alpha males aren't afraid to project their voice.. YET, talking obviously too LOUD can also be seen as OVERCOMPENSATING. Just like guys who wear GENERIC clothes are trying to fit in, or guys who wear OUTRAGEOUS clothes are trying too hard to overcompensate. (hint: be careful with peacocking, find a style that doesn't come off this way, which can be tricky but is still very doable).. Some guys don't talk, some talk too much, etc etc.. Find appropriate balance through trial and error, which is determined through social observation,
7) MOVING YOUR HANDS AROUND WHILE YOU TALK = trying to keep the attention of the group (sometimes can be cool, but most often a form of qualifying yourself)
8) LEANING IN *or* 'PECKING' = too eager to talk.. NEVER lean in no matter how loud the environment is MAKE HER LEAN IN or just leave but NEVER lean in or "peck" as its also called.
9) FACING BODY/FEET TOWARDS HER BEFORE SHE EARNED IT = trying to gain rapport with her too eagerly.
10) CHASING WHEN SHE WALKS AWAY = hoping she'll listen. If a chick moves away from you, move your bodylanguage MORE away from her, so she'll be drawn back.. don't CHASE her... WTF?!@?!?
11) NOT WITHDRAWING (backturns, etc) WHEN SHE DOES SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN'T TOLERATE FROM AN UGLY GIRL OR A GUY = trying too hard to pick her up
12) ANSWERING QUESTIONS TOO QUICKLY/EARLY = too much interest in the conversation
13) TURNING YOUR HEAD (OR "SNAPPING") WHEN YOU'RE ADDRESSED = too eager to be in convo.. so if your head is facing the other direction, and a girl says something to you, turn it SLOWLY to her, don't snap it out of eagerness to hear her
14) GOING BACK TO A PRIOR THREAD THAT WAS INTERUPTED AT THE FIRST CHANCE/BREAK-IN-CONVO THAT YOU GET = trying too hard to impress them.. (ie: when a thread gets broken off in the convo, and you go back to it FIRST chance you get when the other topic ends, you look like you were WAITING to get back to it.. WHY are you so eager to get back on it, unless you don't feel comfortable around the person and you need to qualify yourself to them?) WAIT until THEY say "what was that you were saying before?", and THEN go back to it.. if it doesn't happen, *DROP IT* even if it was good.
15) NOT APPEARING MORE INTO YOUR WINGMAN THEN THE CHICK = trying too hard to pick her up.. you've known your wingman longer than her.. why do you pay more attention to her than your wing?
16) TOO EAGER TO PAY ATTENTION - SAYING "what?" IF YOU CAN'T HEAR HER, PRIOR TO BEING IN RAPPORT = too much interest in what she's saying.. if she mumbles, just STACK OPENERS into an entirely DIFFERENT topic, RATHER than saying "what?" This is fucking KEY KEY KEY. If you say "what?" you'll lose her unless you're already past attraction and into rapport. If this happens, just run a new opener and change the topic. 1- you don't look too eager, 2- you look alpha for being disinterested in what she's talking about which helps anyway
17) REPLYING WITH OVERLY THOUGHT-OUT OF LOGICAL ANSWERS OR WITH OVERLY CLEAR/FORMAL PRONUNCIATION = being concerned that you won't be accepted unless you convince really well (eg. HB: why did you ask me that... RIGHT = I'm talking. (sit and stare) WRONG = because I really need to know since I've been thinking about this for a while.. the FIRST one conveys that you won't qualify yourself to her)
18) TAKING TOO MANY SENTENCES TO STATE AN IDEA THAT COULD BE STATED IN LESS SPACE = qualifying yourself. Commander Zap emails me a few months ago: "Remember TD, don't write what you can say, don't say what you can wink, don't wink what you can smile" TIGHT. The shorter you can explain something in, the more PROFOUND you'll appear. Why? You're not qualifying yourself. (ironically I'm massively guilty of this, due to the fact that I post when I'm really tired - see #21 to spot what was wrong with this last sentence)
19) BEING BOLD INSTEAD OF CONFIDENT = that you know that you can't pick her up, so you compensate with self-defeating actions so that the snub can be on "your terms". Saying "I'm sexy right?" or "baby I want some of that" or even just approaching when the logistics are totally unrealistic is too eager, because a CONFIDENT person wouldn't feel the NEED to say these kinds of things.. these things are symptoms of OVERCOMPENSATION for INSECURITIES.. which leads to..........
20) OVERCOMPENSATING INSECURITIES = fear of not being accepted. Have you ever met a janitor who the first thing he says is "money is over-rated.. I would never get caught up in the corporate world" blah blah.. if they'd have just said "I'm a janitor" and LEFT IT AT THAT we wouldn't have even THOUGHT that anything was wrong with it.. but because they INSTANTLY start overcompensating, it comes off as overcompensating or qualifying. Same with if they BRING IT UP TOO EARLY. Like "hey, I'm Steve.. I'm a janitor and I love it".. They're TRYING to be cocky but it comes off as COMPENSATING. BE COMFORTABLE WITH YOURSELF. If you're BALD, don't say "would you love a bald man?" as a pickup line. It's not COCKY.... its BOLD. If you're bad looking, don't say "don't you think I'm sexy". Just be comfortable with yourself, and don't bring up the issue at all.
21) OVERCOMPENSATING FAILURE OR SHORTCOMINGS = fear of being judged.. if you do poorly on a presentation, or on a sarge in front of a wingman, or on a test, DO NOT SAY DUMB SHIT LIKE "I'm really tired". EVEN IF you're ACTUALLY really tired, the mere act of saying "I'm tired" comes off as QUALIFYING yourself to the person. Just don't bring it up. If you have shitty clothes on, don't say "I have nicer clothes at home." Just don't bring it up. If you meet a girl when you're dressed bad, don't say "I have the coolest club clothes at home" Just don't bring it up.
22) GOING BACKWARDS IN THE PICKUP ON HER SCHEDULE = too eager to lay her.. if you've already GONE THROUGH the whole "let's ballbust and shit test eachother" attraction phase of the pickup, and you're now in RAPPORT -> if she tries to ballbust you at this point then just WITHDRAW ATTENTION. DO NOT BALLBUST BACK. It seems COUNTER INTUITIVE, but once you've gone through that whole little attract phase, and you're now being nice to eachother in rapport, DO NOT let her rewind the sarge by answering her ballbusting with ballbusts of your own. Just withdraw attention, to show that you're not interested in going BACKWARDS in a sarge.
23) WAITING FOR HER IF SHE LEAVES FOR ANY REASON (LIKE SAYS "I'M GOING TO THE WASHROOM, WAIT HERE) = too eager and into the convo.. if she goes to the washroom, make sure you're into another set by the time she gets back.
24) OVERLY REMEMBERING DETAILS ABOUT PAST CONVOS = convo means too much to you, because the person has unusual value to you (ie: a hot chick). Of course, I'm not advocating to be a total dick, but the general rule of thumb is that if you wouldn't have remembered a FAT CHICK or a GUY saying it, then don't remember the HB9 chick saying it. If some random dude said it and you would have remembered, then FINE. If you were in an unusually intimate convo that's also fine. But otherwise FAKE forgetting, even if she's a model and you remember every word. Even forget her name. If you see a random chick from your class or work, but you never talked to her, OPEN LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW HER. Don't give into the temptation to say "we work together". Just open like a random chick, and maybe if you get snubbed then pull out that card to save face, but only as a LAST RESORT.
25) OFFERING TOO MUCH ABOUT YOURSELF TOO *EARLY* = too eager to make them like you.. subcategories of this are:
A) Verbally: if you say to a chick "yeah, I just got back from NYC (or any cool place that would impress)" or "yeah, I just got my Rolex fixed", or "yeah, my stripper ex-girlfriend told me..." then she PICKS UP on the fact that you're trying too hard to impress her.. Same with NAME DROPPING.. DON'T GIVE GIRLS YOUR RESUME TOO EARLY.. Personality conveying routines should convey personality COVERTLY, so it looks like the story is just SO COOL that its WORTH TELLING on its own accord, and it just HAPPENS to have some good things about you in it. When offering good things about yourself, don't offer boring details. Say it with less detail, and it seems less eager. INSINUATE THAT WHICH YOU ARE TEMPTED TO ELICIDATE (holy shit, I just made up that last catchy sentence, but I've gotta say that I'm the shit.. right?)
B) Entertaining: If you have stuff like patterns, or the CUBE, or magic, or photos, or palmreading, and you do this EARLY, it comes off as TRY-HARD. Personally I don't use any of these things, but alot of guys do, and when they bust them out prior to the chick EARNING it, it comes off TRY-HARD. Use the stuff LATER, but not right away.
C) Wanting rapport with someone who didn't earn it: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT? I swear to god, almost *EVERY* PUA I meet live in field does this shit, and its SUPER LAME. Going up to a chick and saying "nice necklace" or "what's your name" or "where did you get that?" is FUCKING DORK SUPER LAME. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF FROM A R-A-N-D-O-M PERSON? The counter argument to this is that you're not hiding your desires blah blah blah she's a hot girl and she should be happy that you're approaching, but this is INTERNET RHETORIC.. and this approach is STILL hiding your desires behind the GUISE that you're nice, so even if the rhetoric was true, it would STILL be ineffective... In the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME this stuff is FINE, but in the REAL FIELD GAME this shit screws you over before you've even started gaming. It's fucking bullshit, and NOBODY who isn't very goodlooking or socially proofed (or whatever high value) PRIOR to going in, can make this kind of approach work consistently on HB8.5+ chicks. TRYING FOR RAPPORT TOO EARLY IS QUALIFYING YOURSELF TO HER BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT EARNED IT.
D) Talking without feedback: When you're talking to someone, and they don't give feedback, and you're talking and talking, you BETA YOURSELF. It's a DOWNWARD SPIRAL, where you start talking TOO MUCH, and you SENSE that you're qualifying yourself, so you overcompensate EVEN MORE by TALKING and TALKING more and more.. Then you feel more and more beta'ed because you qualified yourself, and you're left treading water, grabbing at ANYTHING that will impress the person, so you keep talking in hopes of saying that one thing that will impress them. AVOID this by not talking too much unless THEY give some feedback. IN THE FIELD you do this by PAUSING and FORCING them to fill in the awkward gaps.
Tyler Durden - Routines Opener Curve
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